– If your ambition is your side hustle to become your actual hustle. The key is not how much you work, it’s not even how much time
you put in the side hustle. It’s every other hour. Because every other hour needs to cut, be put into the side hustle, which speeds up the side hustle to become your actual hustle. And that’s what a lot of
people with side hustles want to happen. (upbeat music) You got your perspective. (cheering) I just wanna be happy,
don’t you wanna be happy? (upbeat music) – And I see these dreamers. I
mean what do you say to them about balancing the difference between dreaming and execution? I mean, how do people work out, ’cause you’ve gotta dream hard a lot, then you’ve gotta stop, you’ve gotta start executing hard a lot, then
you gotta go back to dream. Because your life cant
be just about executing, it’s gotta be about dreaming.
– That’s right. – But it can’t just be about dreaming. – Yeah, you have to have
to strategize and execute. – How do you do that? Without people saying you
change your mind all the time. – First of all, I think
changing your mind all the time, is the core strength of a human being. – (mumbles) I’m just
reassessing what I’m doing. – [Gary] My dad used to get so mad at me. “You just said a week ago
that we were gonna sell rosé!” I’m like, “I changed my mind!” Customers came in, I didn’t
like the way it felt. I changed my mind.
– Yeah. – I think changing your
mind is a huge strength. And it’s funny, I was about to answer, and we brought up the change your mind, and I think it’s the same thing. I think a lot of people don’t fire people, don’t change their mind, ’cause
they’re greatly insecure. This is an enormous scheme of insecurity. You know, why do people dream and not do? They’re insecure. They inherently don’t
think they can do it. – The system makes it a bit that way too, I don’t know about America.
– Yeah. – This country here, our
regulatory environment. – Yes. – It sort of enhances this insecurity, which pushes the position,
where you can’t fire somebody. – Yeah, fuck that.
– Yeah, mate. – Yeah, you know, I– – I bet some of my guys here know. They know how it works in Melbourne. – I’m a lot more educated
in the UK version, and I’m aware that the
Australian version’s closer to that. That is some fuckin’ horse shit. – Yeah. – Anything that eliminates merit, is bad.
– Yeah. – If somebody sucks,
and you can’t fire them, the whole thing is broken! – Yeah, totally. – The hell are we doing here? – Well, I mean, I battle
with it all the time, it kills me, and like I
had to do a TV show here, where I actually had
to say, “You’re fired.” And it’s not very Australian to do that. Because it’s considered
uncool to fire somebody. But in my business,
like, I mean I’m sorry, I just can’t put up with
something that doesn’t work. – More importantly, it
leads to entitlement, and entitlement is poison.
– Yeah. – 100%. Yes, I do believe that. I do believe that there is a scenario, just like chief brand officers, and chief marketing officers, are a last 30, 40, 50 year phenomenon. I’d be surprised… if in 15, 20 years, we’d all wake up and most of
the major brands in the world have an editor and chief. I actually think a lot of the concern of my journalist friends,
I always remind them, I’m like, “Look, there’s evolution.” “Maybe you’re not gonna
work for the magazine “you’ve worked for, but
maybe you’re gonna work for “you know, your favorite brand.” And so, yes I mean, I
think great storytelling in the form of an incredible
writer is something that never goes out of fashion, regardless of the platform that they write on, and how it changes. Well you’ll appreciate this. You know, here, let me tell
you how I build credibility. By not trying to sell people
something in my posts. You know? Like, you know, it’s not
hard for Nike to build the credibility, if they write an article about cross training without
mentioning their product. It’s not hard. It’s foreign. It’s not how people are thinking today. But, you know, it’s not
difficult for a coconut drink to talk about, you know,
health and wellness, without mentioning its drink. They can. This is why I want them
to hire journalists. You hire a marketer, she
and he is gonna wanna sell. You hire a journalist, they’re
gonna not wanna sell out. (dubstep music) – This is the primary message
you get across to people. You’ve got to grind 24/7, you know. You gotta do what you gotta do. But my question is really about with working that hard, you know, every human being comes
into the point where you’ve got to strike a balance, or people say, you’ve
got to strike a balance. – A hundred, I think you do. I think early, you know, I
kinda hit the scene in 2009. – Yeah. – And we were in a
global economy meltdown. – Right. – And we were living off of
a frothy 2000 to 2007, eight, and I thought that people were
underestimating work ethic. And so yes, hustle was something
that I was articulating as a foundation of my success. But, I only think one should work a lot if they genuinely enjoy it. – Right, right, right. – You know? Or they have to.
– Mhmm. – Provide for their family,
and they’re working two jobs, and it’s almost the
extreme in the other way. – Yeah, yeah. – I’d like to do a better
job, over the next decade to make sure that my primary
message is happiness. – Right.
– I mean that. – Right, right.
– That being said, in the extreme over correction, where people have started
branding things like hustle porn or things of that nature, hard work is part of the equation. – Yeah, yeah, yeah. – But yes, I think burnout,
or mental anguish– – Absolutely. – Is something I’m very scared of. But I do not believe that comes from, I think a lot of people put hard work as the gateway to that issue,
I actually think that that is insecurity, and lack of self esteem, that leads to that anguish. – Which, so my follow up question with that comment is quite simply, you know, there is quite an interest, and it’s a very popular thing, it’s the cool thing to do. Become an entrepreneur. (scoffs)
Right? Everyone wants to be an entrepreneur. – 100%
– You know, like, when I was at this event, where you spoke. There was about 5000 people and, I can see, everyone wants
to be an entrepreneur. – Yes. – Do you think there’s a danger– – Yes.
– Because not everyone is cut out to be an entrepreneur. – Yes.
(chuckles) – Okay, so how do you tell
somebody that, you know, they’ve been hustling as hard as they can, but something is not working out. How does one figure out where to give up? – I ask them if they’re happy. – Right. – You know, like if you’re
hustling your podcast and through sheer will,
through live events, and pre roll advertisers,
and your making 42000 a year, if that’s more fun,
and you’re more happier than making 78000 being, you know, an accountant, then I try to
encourage that person to live the lifestyle of a 42000– – Right.
– Year person, versus a 78000 year person. I think that if, I think we
have to define our own success. And I think doing what
you want to be doing, is the ultimate. – Right, right, right. – Now– – But, there’s the practical
application, it’s like, you gotta look after a family– – Yes, but–
– You got all these kind of– – But that’s a modern mistake, in that people usually spend more than they make. There’s a lot of immigrants
who take care of their family making 35000 a year. The problem is there’s a lot
people who make 200000 a year, and live like they’re making 300000. – Yeah, right. – Because they wanna
keep up with the Joneses, and they want stuff. – Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah I know. – I mean, you can live a lot of ways. – That’s one way to be. – Family, I lived in
a, I once lived 2 years with my great grandparents
and my grandparents and my parents in a home. You could do that. – Yeah, yeah, yeah. – Especially 25 year olds,
who are like, complaining. Go live with seven of your buddies, in a shit place. Like, I’m fascinated by
people’s misunderstanding of it’s not how much you make,
its how much you spend. – Yeah, right. – Of course if you take fuckin’ Uber, and order out every night,
and need the freshest fuckin’ flyest, flexiest clothes, you’re gonna need a fuck load of money. (chuckles) Why not take the train?
– Right. – Why not live in a shitty spot? Why not cook every night? Like, people are fuckin’ entitled. (calm music) (indie music) – One of the three most
interesting things about you that don’t normally
come up in conversation, and you’re probably the hardest guest to come up with anything that hasn’t been on a podcast before (laughing). – I’m remarkably non
confrontational in real life. – Ooh.
– even though I’m a tough guy on video and stage.
– Nice. – I sleep seven to eight hours a day. – No!
– Yep. Yep.
– Amazing. – I mean, six and five–
– It’s possible! (laughing)
– When I travel. And… I really don’t, I genuinely don’t care if I’m financially successful. (upbeat music) – You know, why we really
wanted to meet with you today– – Thank you. – I think, you know,
what a lot of our users, they’re just starting out,
they’re side hustlers– – Yes.
– They’ve been going home– – Yeah.
– You know, trying to make (mumbles)
– My peeps! – (chuckles) Do the extra work, so like, what’s your advice to them? – Patience.
– Yeah. – You know, ’cause a lot of times, when you’re doing a side
hustle you can’t wait for it to take over
your job that you hate. Patience. And then audit your other activities. If your side hustle’s ambition is to be your normal life,
you have to scrutinize what you’re doing on Netflix. You have to scrutinize Candy Crush. You have to scrutinize the movies. You have to scrutinize baseball cards, and footy, and sneaker collecting. If your ambition is your
side hustle to become your actual hustle, the key
is not how much you work, it’s not even how much time
you put in the side hustle. It’s every other hour. Because every other hour needs to cut, be put into the side
hustle, which speeds up the side hustle, to
become your actual hustle, and that’s what a lot of
people with side hustles want to happen. – [Interviewer] And,
I’ve noticed going only on text at the moment. What’s your–
– Yes. – [Interviewer] What’s your vibe there? Why (mumbles).
– It works. – Yeah.
– It works, you know, having 70000 people on a
text messaging platform like I do right now,
converts better than having three million followers
on, you know, on Facebook. – [Interviewer] It’s that one
to one conversation, right? – That’s right, and it’s cool. Like, I grew up loving
Randy the Macho Man Savage. If he had (audio cuts out), and the Macho Man texted
me back, I’d lose my mind. – You’d be stoked.
– I’d be stoked. So that’s why. – And, in terms of, I
mean, platforms these days I know you’re backing TikTok a lot and– – Yes, LinkedIn, please. – If for those starting out again, coming back out into the community, and those, do they need to make
content for all platforms– – If they c–
– Or do you think they should hone in on one. – I think both can work, but
the reason platforms matter is first matters. – Yeah. – Best, always in the end. But first does matter.
– Yeah. And so , if you’re the
first lawyer in Australia to get on TikTok, and
TikTok becomes Instragram and goes mainstream, there
will be dividends there. I think one of my biggest strategies, around social media is to start with yes. While everybody else starts with no. “No I’m not gonna be on TikTok, “that’s for 12 year old girls!” I’m always yes.
– Yeah. – Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And by the way, the
famous yes’s of Instagram, and Facebook… and Snapchat. Nobody talks about the non famous yes’s. I was a yes on Peach, I
was a yes on Social Cam, I was a yes on Vero. I put in a lot of time and effort, not necessarily to post,
but to watch those platforms that people thought were
gonna be the next big thing, and they didn’t! But I don’t view that as wasted time. A yes culture strategy, always works. (guitar music)