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Ken Auletta, His New Book “Frenemies”, & Disruption in the Advertising Industry | #AskGaryVee 287

Ken Auletta, His New Book “Frenemies”, & Disruption in the Advertising Industry | #AskGaryVee 287


– On this episode and I’m gonna say it, the legendary Ken Auletta stops by. (groovy music) Hey everybody, it’s Gary Vaynerchuk and this is episode 287
of The #AskGaryVee Show. I’m very, very excited for this episode, not only is this gentleman my neighbor in two separate locations, but more importantly he’s
somebody who I’ve admired from afar pretty much as
soon as I started realizing there was business content in the world. And then he embarked on a
book that came out recently that went very deep into the world of advertising and the stuff I was
doing with VaynerMedia, and then Beth Comstock, the former CMO of, and then former Chair you know, one of the great big executives
in the corporate world, somebody I admire very much, texted me one day and said, “Hey, I want you to speak to Ken Auletta. “He’s writing a new book
about the industry.” And literally it was a
massive highlight for me and so sir, thank you so
much for being on this show. – [Ken] Thanks for having me. – And so let’s do this, because
I think the amazing part of this show and the audience is the dynamics of how many
different kinds of demos watch the show. I’d love to get, before we get into the new book, I’d love to get a two
minute, three minute bio. Tell us about your career. Because I’d been watching
a bunch of documentaries and you keep popping up
which makes me laugh, and you look the same. – Makes me laugh too. – You know black hair, instead
of gray hair, but same face. – I started, I had a graduate
degree in political science, and thought I’d work in
government or something like that. And I went to work for a guy
by the name of Howard Samuels, who invented baggies and
the plastic clotheslines, a business man.
– Interesting. – An upstate industrialist. He was running for governor. With my help, he lost. (laughing) So I was at work with Bobby Kennedy’s 1968 presidential campaign. – Well, that’s powerful. – As a low level, – Yeah, that must have been
inspiring and then devastating. – Both, yeah. And then I went to journalism and wrote starting with
freelance, then the Village Voice and New York Magazine both. When Murdoch took over,
did a hostile takeover, a group of us quit rather than, as a protest, rather than work for him. – What year was that? – That was ’77, the winter of ’77. – Was that his first play in the States? – No, his first play, he bought the New York Post in ’76, and promised it would
stay on liberal newspaper, and then obviously
reneged on that promise, and he had bought the San
Antonio newspaper as well. But he had done hostile takeovers in the UK and Australia before,
so he had a bad reputation, but obviously an interesting businessman. – [Gary] Sure. – And then I was, I went to work both at the New Yorker, and writing a column for the Daily News, and did TV on WCBS TV,
political commentary, and I’ve written for the
New Yorker since ’77, and I’ve since written 12 books. – 12? – This is my 12th book. – And what was the first book you wrote? – It’s called The Streets
were Paved with Gold, and it was about what
happened to New York City, not only fiscal crisis, but
the flight of the middle class, the working class, the
race, you know polarization. – And I’m aware of that book, how did it do early on from
a successful standpoint? – It was not a bestseller as
some of the other books were, but it’s a book I’m proud of. – Did it put you on the map
from a quality standpoint in the circles you cared about? – Well actually, you know part of it, some of it ran in the New York Magazine. This was before the New
Yorker, in like ’75, and I did a piece, should the
people who hid budget deficits in New York City, like
the mayor of New York, both Lindsay and Beame, the Governor of Governor Rockefeller, Walter Wriston the head of Citibank, some of the union leaders,
did they commit fraud, and therefore a crime? And Milton Glaser was a name you probably know, the great art director of New York Magazine, and I said this is the investigative piece I’ve done. And Milton, right in front of Clay Felker, the editor of New York Magazine, drew what he thought the cover should be, and it was the mayor of
New York behind bars, the Governor behind bars,
the bankers behind bars, the labor leaders behind bars, and the headline was, “Should
these people go to jail?” And I said, oh my god, they’ve just made this piece come alive. I was writing a serious
investigative piece but he just crystallized
what people would be drawn in and want to read that. – [Gary] That was a big piece. – That was fun yeah, and then I did, you
know just over the years a number of other pieces. – What was the most successful
book you wrote of the 12? Like commercially? – I think the two
commercially most successful, they got up to number
six on the best seller, New York Times best seller list, were the first was Greed
and Glory on Wall Street, and that was about the
fall of Lehman Brothers, and the greed in the mid-80’s
infecting Wall Street. And the next one was in
’91 and it was called, Three Blind Mice, how the
TV networks lost their way. How they were being
disrupted by new technology, which was cable at the time. – And do you see a lot of parallels to what’s going on with social media and things of that nature
to that thesis as well, like platform shift of attention? – Totally. I did a book which also
did well as a seller called Googled in 2009, and that was a book about the disruption, how Google and the digital
world was disrupting the legacy media world,
newspapers, and magazines, and music, et cetera. And then this current book
is about how the disruption that visited legacy media was now visiting the advertising world. – How did you get to the new book? Frenemies, right? – Yeah, how’d I get to it? – What’s the subtitle? It’s called Frenemies? – The Epic Disruption of the Ad Business (and Everything Else). – [Gary] Yes. – And I said, here I am
writing for the New Yorker, something called the
Annals of Communication I follow the media business, and yet I don’t follow
the advertising business which funds the media business. And if you want to follow
the old Watergate adage, follow the money, shouldn’t I be following what’s happening with advertising? And so that set me off to… – And to frame it up for everybody, and you know it’s really funny, and a lot of you know who I am. I’m a character that’s, I’m an unusual dude. I literally genuinely when
I started VaynerMedia, knew nothing about the advertising world. I’d never watched Mad Men. I didn’t know how it was structured. I had no idea that they were mainly run by publicly traded companies. I’d never heard of the name Mark. I mean, this is 2009, I’m 34 years old. I’m a businessman, but
I’m in the wine business. I’m in Silicon Valley investing. So I had never heard of Martin Sorrell, or Omnicom, or Publicis. I didn’t know what a
creative director was. I had never heard of, as a matter of fact VaynerMedia’s, you would blowin’ it, the first 40 employees of VaynerMedia, first of all, it’s called VaynerMedia and what we did was social media creative. We didn’t do any media at the time. I mean I knew that we would. Number two, the first 40 people hired had zero days of advertising experience. – Why’d you hire them? – I hired them because I knew that when I would have conversations with the one or two people, I’d met like three people,
and you know a couple friends were like you should hire
somebody from an agency, I’m like, that makes a whole lot of sense. And I sat down with them in 2009 and ’10, and I’m trying to talk to them about why we’re gonna focus
on Twitter, and Facebook, and you know, look, I had already built a very large wine business. I had already invested in
Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr. I had already had a New York
Times best-selling book. I was a businessman and I was 35, and they would try to convince
me on why I needed to focus on television commercials. One of the reasons I admire
and like you so much, is you do two things that I like. One, you talk about what’s coming, but in actually it’s already here, and that is a very important statement, and that’s where my attachment
is to a lot of what I do. People think that I’m a
disrupter or da-da-da, this has already happened. Facebook’s happened, it’s not coming, and people for financial
short-term selfish reasons hold on to the past, and
they don’t acknowledge the present, not the future. And these are, you know,
I speak a lot publicly. “Gary Vee’s here, he’s
a disrupter, dissent.” First line I’m like, I’m practical. I’m unemotionally practical. I want to be historically correct, and I play for that. So none the less, I
interviewed three people, they were completely,
completely and utterly incapable of understanding what
was actually happening, and they were holding up
the romance of an award, or an adage article, or
arbitrary Nielsen ratings, or there was nothing smart
coming out of anybody’s mouth that was senior or
emerging in the ad world, and I decided, you know what, I’m gonna hire a bunch of
kids and I’m gonna teach them. I’m gonna make sure that
they don’t know anything about that old world. I’m gonna establish a DNA and a culture of kindness, and curiosity,
and really the currency that I believe in, which
is the pulse of the moment. And that’s what we did,
and that’s what we did. – You know it’s
interesting, every time you, I’ve written a lot about
disruption over the years, and every time you do that, and you probe, and you do these interviews,
you find people in legacy media who deny the reality of
what is happening to them, and they do it for lots of reasons. And one of the reasons they do it is, Clayton Christensen of
Harvard wrote a great book several years ago called
The Innovator’s Dilemma, and in it he argues that if
you have an existing business that is generating money, and
has a reasonable stock price, the thought that you’re gonna divert money from your existing business
to some digital upstart, and be punished by crazy Wall Street because of it, you don’t do it, and you get frozen in place, and by the time you look
up, your business is gone. – Ken, let me throw you a
curve, not a curve ball, let me tell you what I’m fascinated by. I’ve always believed that. I see it everyday. I genuinely believe the majority of the Fortune 500 consumer
package good companies in America are so in trouble. The Kraft’s and the
Unilever’s and the Heinz, you know they are unbelievably in trouble, because of what’s
happening with the Amazon, what’s happening with television, and OTT, and big box retail, and
they’re on the drug of Walmart, and the channel conflict
wars of the future are gonna be remarkable. Which means Pepsi wants to go direct, but Albertsons and Walmart
and Costco won’t let them, and meanwhile that’s gonna be the demise. You’re gonna get to that one next. What’s fascinating to me is, you’re right, I’ve
always been able to pray, pray on the fact that
people are held accountable in 90 day windows, and
they will never invest, and they will always be CFO’s not CEO’s is how I think about it. – So that begs a question Gary. Unilever come to you and says, “We want to hire you to do a
big piece of our marketing,” what do you say to them? – I say sure, but please
let me do what I want to do, and then they say, “Sure
that’s why you’re here.” And then systematically,
from day two ’till year six, they close in the reigns
of what I’m able to do. And you know what’s funny about me Ken, you know this a little bit, like this gonna be on LinkedIn. Like, I’m not hiding. I’m telling my clients
that I don’t believe in, I’m hiding even less. The only reason I’m building VaynerMedia is to buy my client’s brands
when they go out of business. I’m literally gonna buy Head & Shoulders and Cracker Jack’s and Wheaties,
and you know, Dove soap. Like that is literally why
I came into the industry. I don’t wanna be the next WPP. I don’t want to build an agency. I wanted to meet people
and build capabilities so that when the carnage came, I would be in a financial position to pick up these brands and run them. I wanna buy the New York
Jets by buying Rolling Rock. – I was wondering when
you’d get around to that. – I’m gonna get to that. I want to buy Rolling Rock
for $230 million from InBev, ABI InBev, and then sell it to MillerCoors for $1.7 billion after
I run it for six years. – And what do you, but
that begs the question, what would you do over those six years running it that’s different? – I would change, well
liquor ,let’s leave out, ’cause the three tier system, but let’s say, let’s use Head & Shoulders. I would become disproportionately capable at Amazon and Shopify, and
I would not spend money on television and print
and programmatic digital, and I would spend it on
Facebook and Instagram, and original media like podcasting. I would contemporize the business around nostalgia or legacy brand. – And how would you create
a direct relationship with the consumer? – By creating one through
marketing and comms, which is actually marketing
where they actually are. That’s the punchline here. – [Ken] Right. – Like the way they score, the margin is in television
and programmatic, that’s why those five
holding companies sell that. So what did you discover? Instead of me yapping and pontificating, ’cause that’s only one angle,
or perspective, or per view. What was the a-ha’s of the ad world? And it is The #AskGaryVee Show. Do you have some questions on LinkedIn? Facebook start putting
in phone numbers today, because this is, my fans always know when
I really respect someone, instead of calling and being
super pumped to talk to me, which is always flattering, I really want heavy
advertising industry questions. If you’re in the ad world, this is the time to put your phone number. Please respect that we have tons, we’ve done 280 shows, we’ll do 280 more. Let’s really focus on the
subject matter at hand, because it is, you know, the thing that happens
when you’re in an industry, no matter how much you’re cynical to it, you start getting very
emotional about the, I’ve fallen in love and
made real friendships. I have real friends at
Starcom and MediaVest, and you know, Omnicom, because
they’re just nice people, and they don’t see it. They don’t see it. This is like religion and politics, they actually don’t see it. And they don’t see it Ken. – When you ask the a-ha moments, that’s certainly one of them,
the blindness of people, and related to that is
the insecurity of people. They don’t see it. – And the audacity. Ken, how much audacity’s in the system? – Well, there’s habits in the system. – [Gary] Okay. – You can call it audacity, but people doing the same
thing over and over again, and not being able to get off that track. But and yet at the same
time as this denial that their business is
fundamentally threatened, there’s insecurity. They’re aware that they
don’t have the same pay level to attract people the way a Facebook and Google does for instance. Well this insecurity, the
mistrust that the clients have for the agencies, and there’s
insecurity about the math men taking over from the mad men. – [Gary] Yes. – And so that’s one of the
reasons they hire a guy like Michael Kassan, who’s
one of the major characters in my book. He gives them a sense of security. He can introduce them to his
clients, Facebook, and Google, and Microsoft, and the
agencies, et cetera. And I was just struck by
this kind of contradiction between the kind of
smugness or comfort level, and yet the insecurity,
and they’re opposites. – But that’s to me, that to me is the characteristics
of the moments before the incumbent takes a fall. – I don’t think there’s any question. – I mean, I’m sure that
was the theme of all, everytime you’ve delved into any industry, that’s the exact, I mean literally, I always think about this when it comes to business. There’s two ways to build
the biggest building in town. One is to just build the
biggest building in town. Two is to spend all your time tearing down everybody else’s building. And when I see behavior
number two from a collective, I know it’s game over. – [Ken] Right. – And so that’s what were seeing. So, okay so that makes sense, but I think that’s an
unbelievably common theme that you probably saw in the TV landscape. Do you have the recordings of, when you write a book like about the three networks not seeing what’s happening with cable, do you have the actual
recordings, like audio? – I record every interview I do. – Are they your IP or are
they the publishers IP? – They’re mine, I own them, I own ’em. – Have you thought about
putting them out as a podcast? I mean I would. I don’t consume anything,
but I would listen right now to whoever was running ABC
talking about cable television with the blind audacity
that she or he did in 19, when did you write that book? – It came out in ’91. It was a five year project.
– In 1991. First of all, that’s
laughable to me to begin with. Here’s why. Well, five years, that makes sense. To me the thought that in 1991, there was still any debate that cable was disrupting the big three, is exactly kind of how I,
you know, look at this. Look at how many goosebumps I’m getting. Look at this. It’s kind of the way I feel right now, which is how does anybody
debate that Facebook’s already, and social media, and the mobile device with social platforms eaten up
all the content consumption. And OTT, by the way the three networks, now obviously Disney owns ABC, but as an individual
unit, ABC, CBS, and NBC are completely out of
business in today’s world. I mean they’re not yet,
but they have no place outside of live sports. – But here’s what’s interesting about it, and one of the reasons I made Les Moonves, one of the characters of my book, I did a chapter where I said, can old media act like new media? And I used Moonves and CBS. And arguably, Les Moonves
is the most successful, modern television executive
in the last quarter century. – No question. – And you look at it, and when I go back to the book I wrote in
’91, Three Blind Mice, CBS was 100% reliant, as
were the other networks on one source of revenue, advertising. – [Gary] That’s right. – Since then, the government
passed the Cable Act in 1992, year after my book, which
gave them something called retransmission consent, which
means the cable companies had to pay them to run their programs. CBS last year got a billion dollars just out of that, new revenue. In ’94, the government passed
FinCEN regulation changes, which allowed the networks
to own and sell programs, becomes another source of revenue. But the third new source of revenue is with the digital platforms like Netflix and Amazon coming on. They decide, the networks, that they’re gonna sell their
programs or their libraries. – Yup, the IP that’s right
– To them, right? And arguably, last year,
it gave $250 million each to Fox, and $250 million to CBS. That’s great right? – [Gary] Yes. – But what are they really doing? And one of the reasons
I used the title Frenemy in the book is that Netflix is a Frenemy. They’re a friend in
that they’re giving you $250 million dollars, but
what are you doing really when you do that, as old media CBS? – You’re giving up the last, the touch-point is the
most important thing. – Precisely. – The touch-point’s the game. Whoever’s closest to the consumer wins. – So if I’m a consumer, I say, I don’t have to wait any
longer for Thursday night for the program to come on, A. B, I don’t have to watch commercials on Netflix, or HBO, or Showtime. – [Gary] Of course. – And C, I am basically giving
ammunition to my competitors. – The distribution’s been commoditized because of the internet,
it’s now only about the IP. – [Ken] Right. – So okay, back to the advertising world. Do you have a question? – [Andy] Yes. – Yeah that’s cool. Let’s actually move on to that and we’ll come back. What do you got Andy? Oh you’re gonna call somebody? – [Andy] Yeah. – Very nice. Yeah, no, that’s fine, that’s perfect. So while you’re doing that, I wanna talk KAS and a media link, because I’m curious, please, – I want to just throw in one other thing. – [Gary] Yeah please. – The largest, there are lots of frenemies in the advertising world. – There’s a lot of frenemies
in every business right? – That’s right, but the
biggest frenemy I discovered, which goes back to your
a-ha moment question, in the advertising world the
biggest frenemy is the public. The public you need to sell your ads and to buy products. But the public increasingly is armed with tools to prevent your ads from getting through,
particularly on their cell phones. – [Gary] That’s right. – You know, be it ad blockers, 20% of Americans have an ad-blocker, 55% according to Nielsen, who record programs on
their PVR’s skip the ads. We don’t want to be interrupted on the most personal device we have. – Time matters.
– Right. – Time matters, Ken,
and there’s another one, which is the hidden conversation in that, even when it’s not being recorded by the date of an ad-blocker,
or the Nielsen rating, there’s something that has
always been my ally in business. Her name is commonsense. Here’s what commonsense tells you. I don’t give a shit what
data’s being thrown around. When a commercial comes on television for most Americans right now, they go and look at their phone, period, end of story. There’s nobody on earth, there’s no report that’s been functioned and
funded by somebody else that’s gonna convince me
that Americans don’t do that. The end, attention is the asset. – So then the question for
the ad and marketing community is what replaces that? If you can’t get their
attention with sales pitches, with things that feel
like an interruption, what replaces that? – To me, they’re gonna start looking more like media companies
and less like advertisers. – Okay, and but then, but one of the things
that I came back at me when I would ask this question of people in the marketing world
and advertising world, they would say, “We’re
gonna offer you services “not sales pitches, and
because we’re gonna be able “to target ads, we’ll know
so much about you Gary, “that we’ll be able to target ads at you.” And then the question becomes, privacy. It’s a see-saw, the more you target, the
more privacy goes down. The more goes up, the more
targeting ability goes down. And that’s one of the
questions for the future I don’t know the answer to. – Here’s the best part. The best part, I wish I got, I wish we had a coffee before we started. There would have been one question I would have begged you, even if you didn’t use
it as part of the book, just for our own foder, do you know what my favorite question to ask everybody in the
advertising world is? Have you ever sold anything in your life? Have you ever worked retail
or have you ever sold? Have actually ever sold
anything in your life? Because what the question
over a thoughtful dinner and a bottle of wine, and
if you have a fair audience, and you’re with a bunch of friends, and you actually talk it out, what you learn about the question, have you ever sold anything
my friend, is the following. You have two sides of the camp
in the ad world right now, the math kids and the art kids, and they all claim there is this it. The reality is, it’s both. – [Ken] I agree. – 50/50.
– I agree. – 50/50. – I don’t know whether
it’s 50/50 but its both. – It’s gonna be 50/50 and I’ll
tell you why I believe that. The data is scaling at
a level that matters. You can get in front of
people better then ever. To your point, it will always see-saw, but they’ll be the next
thing, as attention shifts, like you know Facebook won’t
hold it forever either. It’s just that kind of game. Amazon won’t hold it forever. They may have 10, 15, 20, 30 years. I don’t know 7, 9? But the art is the variable of success. I can get in front of everybody. I can get in front of everybody. Let’s use politics, because
everybody loves to talk about Cambridge Analytica. I can get in front of every
liberal and conservative all day long, all day long, but what’s the picture in the video to get done what I want is the variable. I can get in front of somebody
who buys cereal all day, but if I’m representing Cocoa Puffs, do I know what picture,
what copy, what video to get them to do it? Here’s the problem. They’re all talking theory. My friend, they’re all talking theory. Do you know how many practitioners are in the advertising world? Do you know how many people
work at Omnicom, Publicis, and all these companies are actual doers? And that to me is the
punchline of the game. – But by doer you mean, what do you mean by doers? Who actually create or
who have done sales, what? I’m not sure what. – Sure, that’s the punchline Ken. Like to me, my dream, you know I always, you know one of the
reasons Vayner has grown is we can be much bigger. You made a comment before we went on air, like hey, nice new office. Like we’re growing. You couldn’t imagine if
I was willing to give up 1% of my legacy how big
this company would be. If I was willing to sell programmatic? If I was willing to sell television? If I was willing to do that, this would be super over. They don’t know how good they have it that I’m not willing to conform because I want to look good in the recordings and books when I’m 96. I’ll give up the money,
short-term, long-term. – Interesting. – Yeah so, the answer, you know he’ll dial, but the answer is anything, run a Facebook, you know how many people who
have opinions on Facebook ads in the ad world and have never run one? Like, just genuinely don’t
know what it looks like to run an ad? – [Ken] Right, right. – They treat an award or
a report like religion, neither map to actual business. Name?
– Allen. – You know Ken, no actual
business, no practitionership. – And yet they say, the whole… – Allen, it’s Gary Vee. You’re on with Ken Auletta. Allen? – [Allen] Sir? – It’s Gary Vaynerchuk, how are you? – [Allen] Good, how are you? – Good, you’re on with Ken. Where are you from, what do
you do, what’s your question? – [Allen] I’m from Houston, Texas. – Thank you. – [Allen] So I own a publication here and we’re obviously trying
to expand our publication into other cities. So we have a local niche, which reaches about 80,000 people a month. – Is it a print publication? – [Allen] It is. – And what’s it called? – [Allen] Yes, it’s called The List. – The List, and what does it do? – [Allen] Go to our website, thelist.city. You go to our website
it’s called thelist.city. – Okay. – [Allen] And if you go there,
you can check us out there. So far we’re in two cities. We’re in Missouri City. We’re also in Sugar Land sector, which are predominantly the top two… – Are we losing him with service? – [Allen] We’re working on basically expanding our publications
into other cities across the country. Allen, what does the List do? – [Allen] We’re a floor-marketing company so we do everything. So we offer advertising. Obviously, that’s where
our revenue comes from. So we do print marketing,
we do digital marketing, we do social media. We also help with web marketing. So we do a little bit of everything. – Okay, and so what’s the question? – [Allen] So the biggest thing is that we’re trying to scale up, so I’m just trying to
figure out how we can scale. We started in two city. I wanna use that mold that we have and what’s the best way
to attract new businesses, new areas based on kind of what have already created from scratch. – Why do people find it valuable when I’m looking at the
thelist.city right now when those functions are so available on Facebook and Google and
the attention is there? What have you found has been the rationale of the businesses in those two cities that have made them wanna pony up money in a world where they would
get a lot more eyeballs than value out of doing those
things on Facebook and Google? – [Allen] Right. You know, obviously, we’re
part of both of those. So the biggest thing is what we found being in the publication industry is a lack of niche publications and I think when you’re
having niche that people like, that kinda gives them… – But what’s your niche? That it’s local? – [Allen] Our niche is going to more, it’s a community-based publication, so we do a lot of community content. We have community bloggers, we’ve got… – So you’re replicating
the old local newspaper, like the Millburn Item
in Millburn, New Jersey? – [Allen] No, not like a newspaper, no. So we provide a lot of
like relevant content. Obviously, we’re not a
weekly or daily newspaper. We’re not The Chronicle or
like Eastern Chronicle here. But it’s more of a niche that local people can jump on that can help
attract local businesses, small businesses that, you know. – Allen, Allen. Allen, Allen, Allen. You need to help me here a little bit because the picture’s so gray. I understand that you
want local businesses to subsidize your business. That I’ve gathered, right? – [Allen] Absolutely. – You go to a local town. If we win the attention of
Albuquerque, New Mexico, I can get $200-$800 per
restaurant, lawyer, I get that. What the fuck content are you producing? Like how are you getting
the citizens of Albuquerque to go to the site? Like what are they consuming? What’s the content? – [Allen] So we obviously
direct them to our website. We put a nice write up
why you should join. It’s free. I mean, obviously, it’s kind of like… – Hold on real quick. Yeah, can you help me? I think what I’m hearing now, now I think I understand
for the first time, it feels like its just
a Yellow Pages, right? Like it’s just a directory of sorts, no? – [Allen] It’s actually a
combination of all of that. So it’s kind of like a Yelp, like I mean, it’s obviously
be able to review, they’re able to join. – So then it’s like Yelp? – [Allen] It is very similar. Very similar to Yelp. – So Allen, I think I
know what you’re doing. Tell me if you think I’m right, because if you tell me
the truth that I’m right, then I can help you
make more money, right? I think (laughs). I think what you’re doing is you’re just doing a good job in sales. I think what you’re doing
is you’re just willing some revenue into the business because you’ve created The List. Makes sense, I understand. But it doesn’t have the
scale that others do. There’s the theoretical niche
nature of the local market, and then you and whoever
else are just doing a good enough job of getting
$50-$800 per small business and as long as there’s
just a little traffic coming to it, they can justify
that minimal investment. True? – [Allen] Correct. – Cool. – [Allen’ Yeah, we did it by $30-$40 thousand impressions
a month on our site. – Fair enough. – [Allen] It does pretty well. – I get it. But that’s $30-40 thousand
impressions a month on a website is like a bad Facebook post. Like it’s not a lot, but
you know what’s funny? I love what you’re doing. Let me give you a great piece of advice. Hire interns and people
fresh out of school, pay them as little as possible, but good for them ’cause they said yes. That’s what they want. They wanna learn sales. And basically, find young sales people that don’t cost you the
most amount of money because your business is
relying on small checks. And just build the sales machine,
you could pick any market or you can pick a rabbi per market. You’ll say, “Who wants to be
a leader in Topeka, Kansas?” And then you can build out. Like the actual product you’re selling doesn’t need to be that
good based on the reality, and the reality is with minimal checks. A restaurant in Albuquerque, New Mexico may justify the $200
based on six visitors. It seems like you’re playing the long, long, long, long, long tale. I think the vulnerability of the business is you like to sell something
that actually brings value but at the end of the day,
the market is the market and that the SMBCs value,
there’s something there. Ken? – The other thing I would do is take a look at what
happened with Patch. Patch was a local online newspapers in communities around the country. There were several hundred of them. Tim Armstrong was a major investor. – AOL bought it, right, at some point? – When Tim Armstrong took
over, AOL bought the company. And it flaunted, it failed. And I would look at why it failed. – Well I think they failed… What I like about Allen,
Ken, is they failed because their ambition and their steeze was ahead of the reality
of their business, and he had so many cost of the system. Allen can build a very nice
$250 thousand a year business. Even up to $800 thousand a year. But Allen, look man. I love you and I wanna bring you value. You know, the product you have
isn’t unbelievable valuable. What I like about your potential is you could be in the
long, long, long, long, long tale of sales. – Keep your sales, it cost them. – That’s right. Listen, for a 15 to
27-year-old who can afford, by the way, for 90-year-old, for any human being that could afford what you’re willing to pay them and they wanna learn sales
or they just like it, you need to figure out, I actually think what are
the most interesting things that are brewing. This is classic me, but I’ve an idea of starting a startup, like, incubator in a retirement home. You know how everything is, like, people with time and ideas
come in all shapes and sizes and I think we miss a lot. Allen, I think you need to
find 69-year-old Gertrude and 17-year-old Rick and
find people that can sell. And if the ROI and what they’re selling versus what you’re paying them
against your product works, that’s how you scale, brother. You are only in the sales business ’cause your product is
not valuable enough. Does that make sense? – [Allen] Yes. – Cool, awesome. Thanks, Allen. I mean look, that’s reality of that. Ken, talk to me before we
go to the next question. Wanna go back to the industry, you know, ’cause I’m really fascinated from your perspective. One of the things I don’t do well either is really learn. I learn the customer. I spend a lot of time on the customer. I spend very little
time on the competition. By the way, I’m pumped. I’m gonna read your book this late August ’cause I’m gonna be off and like I’ve rarely read anything. So I’m super excited. I know Kassan’s a big player. I know Michael. Who else kinda wears their head? What’s been the feedback? Give me six, seven minutes
of the industry chatter. Who’s mad at you, who likes you? Who agrees, who disagrees? What’s been the buzz? – I try and tell this story of Frenemies through characters. Michael Kassan is a connecting character. He’s the power broker in the industry. There’s a negotiation between
a client and a platform and an agency. He is at that table oftentimes and he represents all three. And you say to him, Michael, isn’t that a
conflict of interest? He says, no conflict, no interest. And one potential client said to him, Michael, why should I hire you? You kiss everyone in the business and why should I trust that
you’re gonna protect me? He said, you want a good kisser? I’m your man. And he is a good kisser. He is good at that. He is a character. I said earlier is a character looking at traditional media and some of the questions in the future. Carolyn Everson is the head of advertising for Facebook is a major character in a way to write about Facebook in the book which I do. Martin Sorrell, who recently left, but started WPP 33 years ago. – The real icon. – I kind of figure an
interesting character. – Just a framework, ’cause I
know a lot of kids are watching or people that don’t know the industry, in the industry, the mad man stuff, you have an agency, you know, used to be that they would place your media, they would buy the ads
on ABC or a billboard and make the pictures or
videos that went into it. Those separated over the last 20 years, and then there’s lots
of different companies, but those all consolidated
under the roof of, how did you position it? Four, five six, how many big holes? – Five. Five big hole in companies.
– And who are they? – The leading one, the
one with the most revenues at $21 billions is WPP followed by Omnicum,
Publicis, Havas, and Dentsu. – Understood. And Publicis as I saw a bunch
of people texting me today, it’s happening, I guess, had bad earnings and the market is down on
all the holding companies? – Yeah, the holding company is suffering. The presumption is that they’re too old, too many costs that they have to eat, and that they can’t move as fast as say you can at VaynerMedia. – But they have scale, right? There’s lot of people that
wanna work with Vayner. But if your crest are
Colgate and you wanna work at Vayner, you’re excited about us. But you know, we’re
established in the U.S. But we’re merging in the UK. We’re opening up to Singapore in March, but that’s not gonna mean
anything to them right now. And if they need an
agency and they gotta be in South America, the global scale tends to work for these brands, correct? What are their advantages? – Well, an advantage is data. They have more data than you do. And increasingly, the client
is saying I need more data in order to be able to target my ads. – It’s so sad that Colgate
and Procter and Unilever don’t realize two things. What that data actually
is and more importantly, the fact that they need to own the data. – Yeah, and actually is one
of the interesting things. – Renting data from a holding company, that is dirty data for what
you’re trying to achieve and more importantly,
is actually commoditized ’cause everybody has the same data and the variable is do you
know how to move the leverage in real time and make
the pictures and videos? The fact that the industry
believes what you just said makes me laugh inside, and just makes me point into
my wrist just a matter of time because people don’t understand
what the commodities are and what the value props are. – So one of the things that’s happened in the advertising business
is that the madman of all, the Dandrey person have lost power and the media agency
has gained power in part because they supposedly have the data. – Well, they have these data then they deploy on the exchange, and the data gets
deployed against websites in banner ad form, which
means the data’s worthless because nobody looks at the banner ad. A DSP is not valuable if nobody
sees the goddamn picture. – But then increasingly,
those media agencies that have grown in power
as these holding companies, they increasingly worry
about the Facebook and Google who had much better data. – You know what’s so funny, Ken? And this is a point is just being made and it’s fun to talk to you ’cause I know how well
you do your research. Forget about having better data. It’s because they have ad products that are actually being consumed. Ken, I’m telling you right now
like on my children’s health, Facebook has great data. A DSP could have great data. We both know you’re Ken. We both know you’re seven. We know these things, right? Where do you see it? In a Facebook feed, you actually see it. Now we go fast. We don’t see everything. You just see it better than you see it on a desktop banner ad on
willywilly.com below the fault. That’s all. This is just a game of
where is the attention. – Larry Page of Google once said to me when I was doing my Google work, he said half the people click on the ads. And you don’t pay. They advertisers doesn’t
pay, which is very attractive unless someone clicks on the ad. But he said half the
people who do a search click on the ads because they
see the ads as information. – Yes. – Now this is sales pitch. And so it becomes more valuable. – Google’s done a very good
job of being a tool booth. If you’re typing in Pepsi, they’ve convinced Pepsi
to buy ads against Pepsi. They’ve done a very nice
job being a tool booth. I’m excited to see what
Alexa does to search. Andy, let’s get to another question. – Well, Alexa, if you think about it, half the people who do a product search do it on Amazon, not on Google search. – Oh, it’s a way to actual search, right? Hey Alexa, what’s WPP stock price? That’s just faster. – Sorry, I don’t know that. But I do know WPP PLC is
a British multinational advertising and public relations company with its main management
office in London, England and it’s executive office in Dublin. – This is a really
interesting moment because… Thank you, Alexa. Alexa, stop. What’s interesting about that is seven months ago, nine months ago, when I asked that question,
all Alexa said was sorry, I don’t know. Every second, that little
thing there is getting smarter and smarter and smarter. – And it changes the world. And it changes search. – Oh, it’s gonna destroy search. People don’t understand what’s coming. Google better win with the Google home or they’re in trouble. Derek? Derek, it’s Gary Vee. You’re on with Ken Auletta. – [Derek] Gary, what’s happening? – Life is good. Say hello to Ken. – [Derek] Hey Ken. – Hi, good morning. – So where are you from, what do you do, what’s your question? – [Derek] I’m from
Minneapolis , Minnesota. I own a small digital marketing agency, Facebook ads, international
agency for small businesseses so I’m excited to talk to you guys. – Of course, what can we help you with? What’s it called brother? Let’s make sure it gets out there. What’s it called? – [Derek] Vital Traffic Labs
is the name of our business. – Vital Traffic Labs, love it. – [Derek] We also have a vlog. Two guys update this on YouTube where we document stuff. Just, you know, I’m
following your lead here. – Good, man. – [Derek] My question, I
just want to talk about data privacy. For a lot of our clients,
it’s a concern you know. People are worried about
targeting being taken away, household incomes. Basically those big
data collection that… – Yeah, I get it. – [Derek] Companies are then leveraging. To me as an advertiser, I
look at it as a positive because it’s really
gonna make competition, you know, more difficult to target, but in reality, you
talked about owning data. I think there’s a big
opportunity for people to just advertise smarter and really do a better job
rather than using these big data. Who knows how they even got the thing. So I was just curious
like what your opinion on just like the privatization of Facebook. – I get it. Ken? You go first, I’ll go second. – I mean, I think that one of the cultural or historical factors
that impedes Facebook and Mark Zuckerberg is
Facebook has always had a lower opinion on privacy. He’s always felt that we’re
in the business of sharing information, of communicating,
of creating communities. And that our consumers are
less concerned about privacy that there may be some
other people who are. Increasingly, however, we’re learning that consumers are more
concerned about privacy and that Mark Zuckerberg
witness him being compelled to appear before Congress. – Ken, real quick on that, because I think it’s an important point. You know how people like to say things and then do something else? Do you believe this is
just one man’s opinion? Do you believe this
conversation about people caring about privacy is more conversation versus what they actually do in real life? In their behavior? ‘Cause it’s important. – It is. I think that clearly, historically, Americans are less concerned or less agitated and
concerned about privacy than Western Europeans. Witness the EU rules on privacy that have just been imposed. However, if you think about
what the advertisers say the future is, targeted ads
that don’t feel like ads but feel like information. So imagine, Garry, you’re
walking down the street. You have your GPS. We know that you bought a sport jacket at Barneys two months ago. You’re only two blocks in Barneys, Gary. If you go in to Barneys
now, we’ll give you 20% off your new sport jacket. Now how does Gary respond to that? – Tremendously. – Or you might see that as a service, tremendously as you say, but some Garys might say, how the hell do you know so much about me? And I’m concerned about that. – They’re gonna know because the cat’s out of the bag, right? I think the bigger part here is, so my big thing on this is now we know. Listen, if your commonsensed American now, you’re not like, what? You don’t think when
you go on the Internet, like it’s impossible, now you know. And so the more interesting
conversation comes next. This gets into a much more
interesting macro convo about how humans work. There are humans that
are scared of terrorism because it’s pushed on them
as a conversation, right? And then there’s
individuals who like, hmm, if terrorism was as
scary as I’m told it is, well then a car would be
driving into Time Square every single day of the
week running into 39 people because it’s fundamentally impossible. I will use my logical mind, and so people make logical
and emotional decisions. I want my data to be everywhere because I wanna save time. Time is more valuable to
me than anything else. – But Gary, let’s say you’re right. But let’s say that… – By the way, real quick. Derek. Derek, real quick. Two things ’cause I don’t wanna… Please hang, but I think Kenneth and I are about to go on a rabbit hole, so I dont wanna be respectful. Two things brother. Number one, if Facebook had no targeting, none, zero, like television, I would tell you that it would be the best ad product in the world because what would happen is you would still have the attention
of the end consumer. And yes, we would be guessing
and it wouldn’t be fun for me to put wine ads in the feed where people don’t drink wine. But guess what? I see car ads and beer ads
if I watched the commercial 90% of the time on television
during a sporting event and I don’t do either. So the price of Facebook ads to just get overall awareness would still be a remarkably better deal than 90% of the alternatives as long as the ads money
continues to knuckle in there by the big holding companies ’cause they haven’t figured out how to make enough margin in there. – Yeah, but wait.
– Please. – I wanted to, I’m not sure… – You should. – Tell me everything, Ken. Let’s talk about it. – 97% of Facebook’s revenues
come from advertising. And those revenues come
largely from advertisers who say I like the fact
that you can target ads on Facebook. It’s not just about awareness. And so if I can’t target, if I don’t have the data… – It can. It’s cause everyone’s wrong
about the awareness on Facebook. Ken, the awareness Facebook
does is remarkably better than the DTC work that’s
happening on Facebook. Every entrepreneur’s laughing at every big company
in the world right now ’cause they’re making a fortune on the targeting capabilities
on Facebook to your point. What people don’t realize is the real value of Facebook right now is top of the funnel awareness, but all the fucking madman
are too artsy fartsy and think a commercial is more special than a Facebook video. – But wait. But your a guy who doesn’t
like banner ads, right? Isn’t what you’re talking about the equivalent of a banner ad? – Of course, but Ken, I ran banner ads for wine library in 1996 cause they make up 145%
click throughs back then. I don’t like anything or
I don’t hate anything. I like what customers
are doing this second. I day trade attention. Brother, I day trade attention. I have no feelings for anything. I can’t wait to make videos in nine years saying Facebook’s fucking shit. How the fuck are you
guys still in Facebook? How do you not understand AI? How do you not understand VR? How do you not understand
influential marketing on bubu.com? I have zero emotion. Once you have emotion, you’re vulnerable. This is about day trading
attention every second of the day. And the top of the funnel
brand work at scale to move Coca-cola and BMW
lives in one place: Facebook. Almost no one’s talking about that. Please. – You say something that’s
pregnant with questions which is, if in fact 79 years from now, Facebook may be disrupted, I mean understand someone in the garage upbeats the jobs in the garage. – Sally’s in her garage right now. – But how do you disrupt
with network effects benefiting Facebook 2.2 billion consumers? – You would have said the same. Well first of all, platform changes. So right now, we’re talking
about visual in here. Hey Alexa, who’s Mark Zuckerberg? You know, when we started going… – Mark Elliot Zuckerberg is
an American technology… – With a middle name. – I never knew Mark’s middle name. Mark Elliot. Alexa, stop. Ken, you know this. When we move to a different
platform, all bets off. There’s only two companies
I’m really bullish on, Facebook and Amazon. You know, when we go to
voice, 2.2 billion get reset. You would have said the
same thing about IBM. You would have said the
same thing about Microsoft. You would have said the
same thing about Google. You know that. – Yeah. – What you feel out of all
the years of disruption from Walters to Walmart,
from all the years, you’re telling me, now this is the one? It’s Facebook, it’s this one? – No, no, but I have a hard, I mean, having written
covering the Microsoft trial in the 2000s, and where the
justice department claimed and the regional judge ruled that they should be broken up, I thought that was a crazy
decision ’cause the Internet and social network’s gonna break them up. – That’s right. – I have a hard time with the
benefits of network effects. – Because you haven’t spent
time on blockchain enough. You haven’t spent enough time on, well, you just haven’t spent enough time. – When I watch Facebook buy Instagram and buy people, companies that could potentially disrupt them, and the government stepping back and allowing them to do that… – Listen, if you want the
government to get involved, good news. I’m not saying you do. Good news, sometimes they do. I’ll tell you right now, Amazon is far, far more along in the leverage they
have than Facebook is. – Well, and I noticed you
left Google off your list because you see Amazon threatening them. – My POV on Google and Apple is it already happened to them through the merit of
actual merit of business. Look, I believe, left on merit, Facebook and Amazon get disrupted. I feel like that happens. I feel like there are moments in time that governments like to get involved ’cause they get scared. I feel like Europe is more on privacy just ’cause it’s an older
version of entitlement than America is. It’s just 300 years ahead of us. – But they also had the
World War II and Hitler. – I get it, I get it. – Fascism.
– I get it. Look, it’s not stippling nationalism across the world, right? Regulating Google is not going to change people’s wiring of thank God,
slightly more love than hate. And that always is gonna play itself out. Derek, I also think that your point is exactly right brother and I’m excited for the
future of your business. It will be a practitioner’s game. It is now and you know this. Even with all the data, to your point, the data has made a lot of
advertisers lazy and not good. You know this Derek. Even if you’re an amateur,
you could be good at Facebook ’cause it’s so under
priced and so good, right? Admit it. Admit it right now. – [Derek] Exactly. – Like you couldn’t believe
how good you are at it. At first, knowing deep down in your heart, fuck, I don’t even know anything yet. True or not? – [Derek] Yeah, for a local business, not bad at running business ads. They could do some serious damage without really knowing much at all. – And all of a sudden, your the darling of the icecream trip. – [Derek] Exactly. But when it comes to
like a national campaign or like you talked about Amazon are getting people to doing sales on their own e-commerce or shop, that’s what a good, more technical and where, you know, leveraging data. – Yes, but let me tell you as somebody who lived through early Internet and then lived through
early Google AdWords. The C-players are still making way too much money on Facebook. That means the biggest
companies in the world are not pouring the proper
amount of money in there. Derek, your game with Facebook is to continue to hope that the companies that Ken wrote about in Frenemies, continue to think that they can make more margin on their
own DSP and programmatic and on television, because
as long as they keep doing the wrong thing for the
biggest clients in the world, you and I will continue to
eat in their selfishness. – [Derek] Exactly. Well said, I love it. – You got it man, take care. Oh shit, sorry Derek. Ken, I really believe that last statement. I am not Mother Theresa. I put legacy over currency so that drives my actions. And my ambitions of buying brands just happen to, by
accident, align my interests better with my clients. My clients getting better
services from Vayner is absolutely a collateral
from my selfish ambition. But it is playing out. – No, I mean, listen. If they were smarter and
more attuned to the reality of what’s happening, they would
fear you more than they do. – You mean, the holding companies. – [Ken] Yeah. – Of course, but them and the clients, it has nothing to do with
smart, and you know this. You learned this a long time ago. When you’re a 71-year-old executive, and you’re leaving in 24 months, and you’ve worked your ass off, and you wanna buy three
villas and a yacht, you’re saying one thing: I’m gonna do nothing to
disrupt the stock price so that when I leave, I can strike, and there’s no way I’m gonna invest… VaynerMedia doesn’t make money. My poor CFO wants to punch
me in the face everyday ’cause I’m investing in Voice and in AI and machine learning and
influencer and Singapore. He’s like, hey, let’s make a little bit. I’m like, no, this is our time. – Well, the legacy company
as a holding company will say we’ll buy Gary. – That’s right.
– His company. And when Gary says, I won’t sell to you… – And there’s something else
about Gary that’s funny, and I don’t know where
this chip came from. Maybe I was short when I was a kid. I was an immigrant. There’s a million reasons
I can come up with it. It’s not about me. I’m gonna do great, so Vayner’s gonna be a $2 billion company. Peanuts. It’s that I’m obsessed
with inspiring Derek and Sally to stay independent. And then, it gets real interesting. Gary’s gonna do a nice
little job at Vayner and do a couple billion. Gary inspiring an entire generation to tell the holding companies
to go fuck themselves ’cause they actually make more money with staying independent in the long term, that’s a big fucking problem. And you’re right, if they
really, really, really, really knew what I was up to, because usually they rely
on greed, not legacy, and when you get a
character that comes along, that cares about legacy
and knows how to do comms better than anybody else, your industry’s in big fucking trouble.
– You should define for your viewers what you mean by legacy. Reputation? – Yeah. Current reputation that only grow. You know, I wanna be the
reverse of Christopher Columbus. I mean that. I know who I am. I know how I roll. Here’s what I like about the way I roll that I wanna inspire other people to roll. I love that the people
that know me the best like me and admire me the best. I don’t mind people that
see me cursing on stage saying he’s a charlatan. I have empathy. I understand why they would go there. I know what I look like as a cover. But I know I like to
have a good reputation with the people that know, right? And then I like that
it will grow in respect as it looks back upon,
to really understand. What I’m really doing with 15-year-olds on Instagram right now and the propaganda of kindness and gratitude and empathy and being the bigger person, the things that I’m
teaching to a generation of alpha males right now, I will never reap the
benefits of that work today, but I think my grand kids
are gonna be really proud when people chat about it. Once people can dissect it. And I’ve a great benefit that Mohammad Ali and others didn’t have. It’s all being documented. And you know, I’ve very big ambition. – When you say documented… – What’s that? I film my whole goddamn life, you know. Like it’s a very big ambition. I’m up for the challenge,
but I will say this. It is all build on the thing that you’ve covered your entire career which is this amazing audacity. People doing the wrong thing
for short term economics at the expense of their legacy. I can’t wait for history
to talk about this era. – You mentioned earlier that I came to you through Beth Comstock at GE and I said to Beth, I said, Beth, who should I talk to? Who’s a disrupter? And she said Gary
Vaynerchuk in VaynerMedia. And in fact you are one
of the people I profile as disrupter and the other
is Bob Greenberg at R/GA who basically says the
ad agency is a dinosaur. We have to redefine
yourself in another way. And both of you guys that I
spent time with in the book is juxtaposed to the WPPs and the others. – Ken, I appreciate you being here. Ken, on this show, the guest gets to ask the question of the day. And you know, as a research man, I don’t mind where you go with this. Maybe you already know the
next thing you wanna write. Maybe there’s something that
you’re just curious about, you’ve got a ton of entrepreneurs skewing under 40 pretty aggressively. You know, what question of the day do you have for them? Doesn’t have to stay in the
context of our talk even, ’cause I know your brain’s always working on the next thing, potentially. Or maybe just, I don’t know, how the Mets are gonna
finish their season. I don’t care where you go with it. – I’m not gonna as you
how you’re gonna buy the New York Jets ’cause
I know you wanna do it. My 13th book, I would
like to be a biography, and I’m resting with who is
a great biography subject. And so all ideas are welcome. – I love that. You’ve never done that? – I’ve done profiles of
people in New York for years. But I’d like to exercise another muscle by writing a biography. – I love it. – But I don’t want to
do historical biography ’cause I like to interview people. And I can’t interview dead people. – I love it. Ken, thanks for being on this show. You keep asking questions, we’ll keep answering them. (upbeat music)

100 thoughts on “Ken Auletta, His New Book “Frenemies”, & Disruption in the Advertising Industry | #AskGaryVee 287

  1. 10:32 What Gary is saying is absolute fact. Even this week, Facebook (even though they don't fall into this circle of companies), Facebook stock took a dive after they announced their Q2 numbers. It's insane.

  2. I think Tiger Woods needs an official biography or maybe Rafa Nadal. 2 sports legends that never showed the back of their tongue.

  3. Oh, I saved it to see it latter, because I'm working on my future now and an video to watch is too much for me. Guess who pushed me to that mode, Gary? DDD

  4. Gary how would you go about building a personal brand around trying to run a hedge fund in the next 8-10 years? Would love an answer. Thanks

  5. I love u Gary but shut up and let your guests finish their thoughts and opinions. I'm not razzing you. Ok I'm razzing you!

  6. Targeted Information is day trading advertising attention. — I still say "Adapt or Die" in the advertising and media business.

  7. Yo Gary, hope you're well. Your energy was quite different in this one. Loved the name of the book too, gotta check it out!
    #qotd perhaps interview someone who is over 1️⃣0️⃣0️⃣ years old!

  8. I will love to read a biography about Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk specially the second one because he didn't see like someone easy to get information from

  9. Lol this is the first time i've seen gary somewhat aggravated and upset when he was on the phone with that guy.

  10. #questionoftheday Ken, the person you should write a book about is sitting right in front of you. Process of buying the Jets –
    from selling sportscards to buy the fucking team

    Your experience + Garys Attentionmachine and his story= Bestseller incoming

    Thanks for that awesome interview and that look inside the industry.

    Greetings from Germany
    Toby

  11. QOTD: [2047] I was even sitting in his office way back in '18. Now he's like a human/helicopter/billygoaty that maintains/drives thee biggest innovations in teleportation media at scale over 2 planets! …

  12. “A DSP is not valuable if no one sees the GD picture”-Gary Vee soo freaking true love it #firstinline

  13. I'm always excited to listen to these kind of interviews, but then I remember the guy ends up getting interrupted at every turn, rarely allowed to finish his train of thought, so I just don't bother. -_-

  14. GARYVEE is the MANNN IVE TAKEN all of garys advice.jumped out of comfort zone and now Im on target to make a millon ive even just created a youtube channel to follow my progress my first vlog is due to drop 45mins I would love some soupport/feedback so please hit subcribe and check out please

  15. Good day my dear Friend. How are You? My name is Dmitriy. I live in Ukraine. When I found You in podcasts on Itunes, I'm listening You every day to get insights and open my vision. On the 20th of September 2018 I'll be in New York for a few days and really want to meet You personally and say I do appreciate all what You do for this world. And maybe You will change my life for small talk)) Have a great day. Thank You for all You do.

  16. I think a great biography choice might be someone who is considered an expert/leader/influencer/success in a field in which they weren’t a “practitioner”.

    Since I feel Gary really pushes needing to be a “practitioner”, it might be interesting to see another perspective that could be as true.

  17. Damn…wish this show would have gone on two more hours. Great guess…can't wait to read the book.

  18. Arizona State University is building a senior community on mill ave! Love and learn! Sun devils have max underwood I would love to see Gary and Max on here! Max would make his students turn in assignments via YouTube around 2008-09 started and he worked with the Eeams in Ventura!

  19. I'd go with Ross Perot… He's up there in age, has been an entrepreneur, and has seen a ton of history to he interviewed about.

  20. “The touch point is the most important thing. Whoever is nearest the customer wins.”
    #Frictionless
    “Attention is the asset.”
    Touch Point with #Coverstep and #Steprack Engineering #BusinessModels which are #JIT and on point.

  21. the privacy topic is delicate… ppl say and do different things, true, but that changes really quick when something goes wrong aka you get wrongly accused because data is wrongly interpreted, or your data is used to correlate something you didn't want to be part of… In other words there are a multitude of situation this data can be used in to create xyz outcome that might be, not only, not beneficial to you as the target user but could even be highly detrimental to your livelihood, lifestyle, even health. The fact is no one knows what this data could become in someone elses hands. Yes we willingly give up our own data… but just because we do doesn't mean nothing nefarious or nothing "wrong" can be done with this information that was not predictable today. I'm just taking the opposite side of the argument here … there are obvious upsides to collecting this data and tailoring products and services to the end user… but there's also a real downside and this i believe starts to become an issue as time goes on and more and more ppl are affected.

  22. It is refreshing to get away from the 'hustle' narratives, and to take a closer look at what is happening in the world of intentional communications, the power of persuasion, how power is executed out there in the big bad world.

  23. "Every entrepreneur is laughing at every big company in the world right now because they're making a fortune on the targeting capabilities on Facebook" — yep! There's one right here!

  24. Rupert Murdoch has a "bad reputation" because he is conservative or because he supports diversitiy of ideas?

  25. Holy shit so much energy in this one LMFAOOOO. Loved it but I'd liked to have heard Ken a bit more, I think I'mma watch some of his interviews to see him explain himself hahahaha

  26. Gary vee perhaps your best #askgaryvee ever. While ken is clearly a very nice man, he is exactly what is wrong with the media. He could not comprehend your points regarding Facebook and privacy and how powerful the platform has become. Second point while ken writes business articles it is clear he doesn’t understand capitalism. GaryVee is on the front lines of capitalism and ken could not agree or understand how Gary came up with his point of view. It is about interacting with the consumer NOT your media friends and regurgitating clever quotes from books and thought leaders. I know this was not your intention but it came through loud and clear. Thank you Gary. It is about doing push ups not reading about them!

  27. QOTD:
    Make a three book plan
    Write 1. GaryVee – The Foundation in 2018 (ok, a year or two for interviews 2019 or 2020)
    2. GaryVee – Crushing It in 2038
    3. The Worlds Greatest Attention Hunter in 2060
    😄❤️😄

  28. I loved how Gary was so respectful and never interrupted his guest. He didn't need to raise his voice as in other episodes. Love Gary either way, but this episode was more enjoyable.

  29. Highlights:
    @9:34 (to 945): establishing a culture of Kindness and Curiosity
    @55:43 (to 5723): differentiated & directed by values of Legacy, Kindness, Gratitude and Empathy – with character QC/QA via complete public Transparency

  30. This was really good. It’s so much better when they have a business type person on. They actually challenge what Gary says and it leads to a discussion vs just the person going along with him blindly.

  31. Blindness and Insecurity are the very issues in every industry. And I mean "every" industry, including non-profit and religious entities. People are trapped in their perspectives of past and future and forget that people are searching right now. There is no loyalty to brand or history any longer. The older your history the more likely it is to be distrusted and marginalized. Great conversation, thank guys.

  32. This was my favorite #AskGaryVee show. More guests like Ken Auletta please. I really enjoyed the intellectual conversation. Thank you Gary!

  33. I still dont understand the fanboyism behind GaryV . He just spouts the same anecdotal crap again and again. Sure old media is dieing. Okay thats obvious. He seems so proud to say millions of Americans are on their phones during tv breaks. But guess what… Theyre not going on there to view ads.. Like Ken said theyre skipping ads, they find them intrusive and annoying..
    Tell me something i dont know that has data to back it up. Not your opinion well crafted in overconfidence.

  34. hie Gary im tino from zimbabwe ..im planning to start the ecommerce company for africa …but the country i live in has poor economy and full of corruption ….what can i do ,,i really appreciate your work ….it has brought an impact to my life ..may God bless you

  35. Wow, simply wow. This was a brilliant show and it went a lot deeper and a lot different to any other show has been in relation to the advertising industry.
    Would love for you guys to get him back in again and not even worry about doing a call in show, but just a simple sit down and back and forth discussion on where the industry is going next.

  36. Gary, I love the feedback at 31:00 mark. Very educational and practical approach to problem solving while putting into context the impression goal for the caller

  37. I love Ken's generous and open attitude here. He shares his knowledge and also makes intelligent questions. He recognizes Gary's value, thus he absorbs Gary's answers.

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