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Caroline Evans on Consumer Advertising: How Does it Apply to Recruitment?

Caroline Evans on Consumer Advertising: How Does it Apply to Recruitment?


Caroline nice to meet you, nice to meet
you, can you tell me a little bit about your
background? Yes I’m UK marketing lead for money farm we’re a FinTech offering
consumer investments and I started my career at Hodes doing recruitment
marketing and the employer branding so a little bit of experience in this field.
So I know you’re from a recruitment background while back now you’re leading
marketing for a FinTech company that’s B2C is that right? Yes so we talk to an
audience of 35 plus, fairly wealthy looking for help with their investments.
And b2c marketing for me is very similar to recruitment marketing in that its kind of
one to one in a certain extent and you’re trying to appeal to individuals, what crossover do you think there is? There’s quite a bit I mean you’re trying to attract an
audience and trying to get an individual to take an action so it’s similar to you
know trying to get someone to apply to a job so there’s definitely some
similarities there and then for each of your products you’re working
with personas which is similar to the skill sets that you might need
for a job so there’s lots of crossover there. You mentioned personas there and
some people might not know exactly what meant by so long can you define what
persona is exactly? So we use personas to shape our marketing materials and our
go-to-market strategy so we’ll build a marketing strategy around a
specific persona and when I say a persona take Ana is our persona,
she’s about 60 years old, she’s built up a lot of savings over time and she’s
starting to think about retirement so her primary aim is getting a view of
all her money so what messages do we put out there to kind of show what the money
fund product is going to show her. And how many different personas do you have
running at anytime? We work with 3 at the moment some brands work with lots more
than 3 though but we’ve got quite a narrow field of product in the
investment space. How do you think that could be applied to recruitment so how
can personas be used in all the recruitment? I mean you’ve got personas
within roles based on experience, based on skill set, based on the requirements
of that role but take it outside of what you need to kind of fill that role and
think about right what do these people look like out there where are they
engaging with media so like Ana actually might be quite active on LinkedIn but
not doing much on Twitter whereas a social media marketer might be using
Instagram much more in their day to day life, so use the different
like use the personas to identify where your audience might be and what messages
are going to attract them. For a team starting from scratch they’ve decided
they want to go down the route of building personas so they can target
people smartly how do you start if they’ve never done it before?
I think you could have start with from a consumer marketing
perspective it’s a case of starting by looking at what needs that product is
filling, ideally your product has been designed to fill a specific need and
then thinking about what actions are going to encourage people to take that
product out or take the action you want them to do and then it’s a case of using
various market research techniques to kind of find those people and
figure out what that persona looks like so we’ll use sources like yougov, we’ll
do focus groups, we’ll do quantitative research so sending surveys out to
people that look like our target market to help us define what is it
that makes this audience tick, what media are they using and then our
marketing strategy can be built from there. I guess the beauty in recruitment
is you can ask your current employees who match the persona? Exactly you’ve got a pool of people they’re already so you know with money farm we have some
people that look like our target market but then some people that also don’t and
so it’s a case of us your staff for a font of knowledge for both
marketing and and the recruitment engagement. What technology do you
use in your marketing team to enable you to get the message out there and drive
conversions? So we use a wide variety of tools from programmatic display tools
through to a lot of the social media sites right the way through to
email marketing platforms, I’d say the tool that’s probably most integral to us
is our internal data and our data management system to ensure that we can
use that data and to help our campaigns. Explain to me how that works then?
Well as someone signs up to money phone we collect data on that person, they’re
answering a series of questions, they’re taking a number of actions, they live in
a certain area, they are a certain gender we get all of this information so we’ve
got a data management platform that enables us to get this data because we’ve now got eighteen thousand customers so it’s quite difficult to
look at individual data points for those so we’ve got a tool that helps us kind
of wade through that data so we can pick out trends quite easily. The same again
should be how to apply to recruitment in fact often they’ll have hundreds of
thousands of candidates sitting applicant tracking system and if you can
track the behaviour in terms what drove them to get there you can start to be
more targeted in what you’re doing I’m assuming? Exactly. So from your experience you’ve been in all the recruitment with Bernards Hodes you’re now b2c with money farm. What crossover do you think there is
there in terms of perhaps what the world of recruitment can learn from what non
recruitment people in marketing are doing? I think a lot of the attraction tools you have a quite similar, it’s all about
building a brand in the space what is it that you want your brand
to be famous for as an employer, is it is it the benefits package, is it the
development scheme, is it something else So we do exactly the same thing
from creating a consumer brand perspective what is it that we want
money fund to be famous for is it the super slick signup process, is it the
fact that we help them manage their money over time, what is the
element that really makes someone go ‘oh that’s money farm’ and
you want to do the same thing as an employer and then in terms of the media that you use you’re looking at the same media and the only difference
is you go an extra extra level with job boards and things like that but a job board to a recruiter might be the same as what a financial website is for money farm so you’re using a lot of the same tools
I mean ultimately we’re both trying to attract people and people don’t just
live on job boards or on social media or in their email account they use a range
of things so how is it that you’ve surround
that person to get them to take that action. Do you look at like a certain
number of touch points before you convert somebody you have metrics around that? We do look at that in a lot of detail, it shifts depending on the season
but we kind of estimate that it’s around about seven digital touch points
but then you add in those analog touch points as well but you’re
trying to kind of constantly remind people, a lot of our conversions come in
the retargeting space as opposed to the first touch point.
That’s interesting because I know sometimes people have a tendency to go
towards that’s the most productive channel so we should just put everything
on there but going back to that point around touch points, you’ve got to hit
people in various places haven’t you to convert them? Exactly you’ve got to set
up those key performance indicators for each stage of your journey
I think recruitments quite similar to what we’re trying to do with investment
you’re asking someone to have a job with someone that’s spending a number of
years we’re asking someone to invest with us for kind of five to ten
years and that’s quite a big decision process they’re not going to see one
banner advert and make that decision they’re going to need to be
reminded that you’re there and they’re going to need to be sold that
proposition and trust that you’re going to look after them and nurture them in
the right way, use exactly the same words for an employer as you do for an
investment provider it’s just one you’re nurturing the career and the wealth
generation the other you’re kind of nurturing the money. In your world, certainly in recruitment we sometimes struggle to track the source of a
candidate often it’s put down to the last place they visited, rather than
actually maybe the first place or six seven steps back how do you tackle that?
We still have a last click attribution model which is definitely
flawed so we look at a range of different things
but it’s definitely a challenge because it is so much easier to track on a last
click point of view but as long as you’re tracking
interactions and views you can start to build that journey and you can pick up
common journeys as well. So you can see that somebody saw this that this went
there went a few weeks later potentially yes or something else? Yeah you can start
to see which channels have a relationship work quite well together
obviously some channels have less visibility than others which makes it
challenging, especially when you’re in the offline space but you should be able
to spot like turning things on and off having an impact on your conversion
rates. You mentioned the offline space, what do you in that space to
convert customers? We’ve done numerous different things I think you know
looking at it offline versus digital is kind of like an old way of looking at it
because you’re looking at things that are going to touch the customer but we’ve done out of home advertising we do a lot on the radio but
you know some of some of those spaces are digital now so you can optimize two
times when you know your audience are going to be there in some of the spots
and we haven’t tried TV. Mainly because it’s such a massive cost but we’ve looked at press, we’ve looked at partnerships, we’ve looked at inserts
leaflets, you name it we’ve probably looked at it. And that broad approach
just gives you that variety and gives you more opportunity to test things? Yeah
I mean we’re a startup we’ve been going for three years in the UK so whether you
still call us a startup or not is a good question but we do adopt a test and learn strategy we want to see things working
we want to see things performing and we are tracking every part of the journey
we’re tracking how long people are spending on our site when the bounce
rate improves when that conversion rate improves which traffic is best
converting, when our direct traffic when that conversion rate
changes it tends to you know follow a spike in PR activity or something
offline so we’re looking at what’s impacting the conversion rates of
each of each channel and kind of optimizing all ways to ensure that that
we’re getting the best we possibly can out of our spend so there’s a big drive
at the moment around automation of your marketing efforts so do you use any
technology to enable that for your teams? Definitely, you know a lot of you
know the ways we serve digital adverts there’s kind of you know algorithms and
it’s you know all programmatic now but you
still need the science of marketing you know you still need to know who your
audience is, what action you’re trying to get them to do, what your brand stands
for you can’t leave it all down to automation there’s still a degree of art
that sits over that and it’s only you know with marketing automation it’s only
as good as what you put in so we do a lot of stuff automating things around
the kind of user journey so someone’s put in an email address they’ve not gone
any further that’s gonna trigger a certain action right they’ve got a
little bit further bit seem to have dropped off at this point
that’s going to trigger another action or they’ve gone all the way through
become an active customer that’s gonna trigger another action so you want to
make sure that you’re thinking about your customer journey throughout
that, you’re not just trying to automate the process to kind of save time you’re
actually trying to do it to enhance that interaction with them. So when an
organisation is marketing themselves whether it’s for recruitment or for
selling a product type reasons, differentiating themselves can be
difficult and so much noise nowadays. How can an organisation approach that? I
think personalisation is really key to that you know it all boils down to why a
consumer is interacting with your brand and ensuring that you’re showing what
value you’re adding, whether that’s in terms of their career or in the
case of money farm in terms of the product that we’re
offering them and for us we found that you know humanising that journey
and you know bringing in their investment consultant and enabling that
conversation has been really powerful in terms of unlocking more interactions. So
that personalisation piece piece has been absolutely key?
Definitely. Okay so in your world, how do you measure success of your team the marketing team. I mean an ultimate success is based on
how much people are investing with us how many active customers we’re
generating and but we break that down into various different KPIs and we
optimize across those so whether that’s cost per view or the amount of
traffic we’re landing on or getting onto our website or the
conversion rate of that traffic on our website, how many of the
people coming to our site are then going onto becoming users we look at the same
from a mobile app perspective so there’s a lot of different KPIs that we that we
look at but the key one is always active customers and how much they’re investing
with us. Okay excellent and the other metrics are really kind of feeding into
that as the stuff we’re doing to get to that point we’re working? So I imagine in
the recruitment world it would be a lot it’s getting a person into a role so how many applications are you getting for that actually you
know getting 300 applications to find one person might not be the best thing
you might be better off getting 50 to find that one person because from a
time perspective that saves you massive amounts of time so how do you optimise
that journey to get the optimal result. Do you have tech in place that helps you
do that analysis and what do you use? So a range of different things, we Google
Analytics is always a starting point but we’ll use you know advertising
tracking systems and stuff as well. Which I guess is very similar to the
applicant tracking systems, yeah and stuff that can manage your your media
and how much you’re paying per click and all that exactly yes so there’s various
different tools depending on which part of the marketing journey you’re
looking at and it’s just about making sure that you’re getting best
performance out of all of your channels. Regardless of how much the marketing
budget and organisation has got being known for whatever it is they do, whether
it’s an employer of choice or some reselling financial products it’s really
important how can you go from literally no brand awareness to some brand awareness and relevance? It’s definitely a challenge to build that brand awareness
money funds been around for three years and probably most people watching this
won’t of heard of us and and I think brand awareness is the thing that brings
you efficiency, that’s when you can start turning certain things off and your
numbers don’t drop to zero but having that base level of brand awareness is
absolutely key to get those conversions but I think if you’ve got a
limited budget and you’re trying to build that brand awareness from scratch
a lot of it is about making sure your proposition is really really clear, your
positioning is crystal clear and people understand what it is that you’re selling to them like these are all the things that help
you have more cut through, even if your budget is limited. So we know you brand awareness is important and makes everything a damn sight easier
what specifically if you guys done to improve your own brand awareness?
Brand awareness is not something that you can kind of change overnight
you’ve got to build on it over time so you know the the channels that have a
bigger impact on awareness do tend to be offline (for a brand like money farm)
so that is radio that is investing in out-of-home, TV would be great for
boosting awareness but how do you then convert that because it’s not with a
growth brand it’s not just about building that awareness it’s about
getting that awareness to produce a customer action and so ensuring that
you’ve built your whole marketing funnel to kind of optimize that brand awareness
that you’re building but you don’t want people to just know about you and you
actually want them to interact with you. How do you check that people understand
your brand, so beyond just being aware of it actually understanding what it is you
do? I think for that you’re looking at your conversion rates if you’re if
you’ve got a really high bounce rate on your site people are probably coming to
you not quite knowing what you’re doing whereas if that bounce rate is starting
to come down that time on site is going up people are probably engaging with you
a bit more, understanding you a bit more and then you’re also looking at that
kind of visit to user conversion rate as well so you know what proportion of
your trap traffic is then going on to convert and start to take a product out
with you. So the higher the conversion rate, in theory ,it means the messaging
before that point is on point is accurate and understandable? Exactly Excellent

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